"Doing Woodwork to Make a Living Can't be Split Into Two Parts—Life/Work. It's a Whole Lifestyle": Neil McKinlay Interview
Neil McKinlay is an extremely talented woodworker and furniture maker. He hails from the "mean unforgiving streets of Lochgoillhead" in Scotland where he runs his business Caleb & Taylor. I asked Neil some questions to try to find out more about the man behind the hilarious YouTube videos, not to mention the beautiful work he produces. Neil is wonderfully open and honest. I think you're going to really enjoy reading his thoughts on life and woodworking.
During our conversation, Neil tells how:
He had to take a break from woodworking after his finish carpentry business became too stressful
Having just 32p in his bank account at one point motivated him to create his furniture
Hollywood still hasn't called
He'd like to give Dr. Dre one of his chairs
And how the Porsche 911 is the greatest thing ever designed
Dónal Moloney: Neil, thanks a million for your time in doing this interview. To me, you are one of the most interesting, and talented woodworkers in the online scene. Anyone who has seen your YouTube videos or Instagram stories will definitely agree with that. I’d like to start at the beginning of your career. How did you get into woodworking? Was it something you started straight out of school? And was it something you had wanted to do, or something you just fell into?
Neil McKinlay: I didn't take tech classes in school and didn't really want to do anything construction related for a job, so I got an office job and it was the worst. My dad needed a hand for a few days on a big house build he was doing. I went out and thought it was amazing. I loved everything about it, so I left the office and done a traditional apprenticeship with my dad's small company—me and him pretty much. We built houses, done extensions, kitchens, and renovations. We argued too much so I finished my time and thought I knew everything. I started working for myself doing renovations and extensions. I failed pretty handsomely on more than one occasion. I wouldn't say I was terribly successful at it but I took to finish carpentry work. I was enamoured by the finish carpentry in America and set my sights on doing that. I got lucky and found clients who liked me. I showed them some pictures and said "can I do this in your house". They loved the ideas I had, so we done three stories of coffered ceilings and panelling. During this time I built up a small business. We done a lot of projects and I needed to take on staff. It went well for a few years and I think I might have had some form of breakdown. Too stressful, man. That's when we decided to go to America for a bit of travelling, me Gemma and the three boys, Sonny was just 6 months. It was good, it turned out to be a really long therapy session and it was then when I decided I liked being with Gemma and our boys all day so planned to set up the workshop/studio at the house so I wouldn't need to do the commute to job sites anymore. We got comfortable living on the bare minimum until I got my first customers. Saying times were tight is a severe understatement. There's something about having 32p in your bank and wondering how you'll feed a family that'll get you moving.
DM: If you hadn’t followed that path and gotten into woodworking, what other job do you think you’d be good at? Is there any other profession you’d like to try? I think we all daydream from time to time, or see someone doing another job, and think—I’d do a way better job than that fucker! Do you do that?
NMcK: I sometimes think my life is a constant daydream man. I've thought about doing all sorts, I thought I'd maybe get into acting, seriously, but I wasn't really into it as much as I thought I'd be. I'm too shy for that stuff so I got into writing, I've been writing screenplays for movies and TV for a couple of years. I've never sold anything and actually I've never even had a returned email from anyone I sent a script to. I like the things I write and I think they're hilarious but obviously these Hollywood types don't agree. So yeah if I could do another profession I'd be a screenwriter. There was one stage I went through where I tried to get big travel companies to pay us to travel as a family and we'd write about it from the view of the family who want to travel the world. They weren't interested but that was before social media was as big. I think it'd be a good YouTube channel. I have these ideas all the time, I've got a constant feeling that time's running out and I need to do everything. If I had to do a 'normal' job I'd probably get into graphic design and make my own products to sell. There's loads of stuff I want to do but it's mainly stuff that would allow me the finances to buy a house in Malibu. It could be a mental illness I've got or I could just be delusional, I think a bit of delusion can be good for you at times, maybe, actually probably not.
“I COULD MAKE MORE MONEY DOING WHAT I USED TO, BUT IT’S ONLY MONEY, IT COMES AND GOES.”
DM: I love your philosophy on work/life balance. Working from a home studio, and being around your family more sounds ideal for a lot of people. I’m in a similar situation myself. But sometimes when work gets really busy, work/life balance is still a struggle even when you work from home. Do you find this difficult? What do you do to manage your work/life balance today?
NMcK: I'm at the house every day unless I'm fitting a job, picking up materials or looking at future jobs. I can take the boys to school, and I'll have lunch with Gemma most days. It's ideal if that's your thing. I know people who love to leave the house and have limited time with their family. Each to their own, but we're only here for a short time and kids grow too fast so I'm cool with the set up we've got. I'm sure I could make more money doing what I used to, but it's only money, it comes and goes. I think doing woodwork to make a living can't be split into the two parts — life/work. It's a whole lifestyle, it's all one and it needs to be this way. I don't know anyone in this industry that does good work who works 9-5 and takes weekends off. It needs to consume you. Or at least that's my take on it. I think having the place where you work on the grounds of where you live can be a hard thing at times. I work a lot and because there's no travel you can keep going 'til whenever. I wouldn't change it but if you enjoy working it could take over.
DM: So what does a typical day in your studio look like? What’s your routine at the moment?
NMcK: I'm really busy right now because I took on a small renovation, it's nearly finished and it'll be my last renovation ever. I'm not made for doing them anymore, too many moving parts for me. I like things simple. So a normal day I'll get started for about 8ish. When I say get started, I mean I'll open the door, switch the lights on, and get the wood burner going. I'll walk the boys to school if it's dry for 9. The school's just a 5 minute walk. I'll get back and make a start on whatever I'm working on. I'll stop for lunch about 12ish because thats when the youngest, Sonny, comes home from pre school. I'll work until about 4 or so, then go into the house and see what's happening. When we're busy I'll start back about 6ish when Lewis comes over. Lewis has been helping me for a few years, he's got a real job but helps me at nights and weekends. We'll work 'til whenever we want. Sometimes with beer we've went until after 11ish. That's only when we're busy and there's stupid deadlines to meet. I try to finish about 4ish though, then I'll take it easy.
DM: What is your favourite type of work to do? Your body of work features a lot of beautiful live edge elm tables, with stunning modern style bases. But you also do a lot of cabinetry, not to mention the whiskey barrel cruisers. If you could only do one type of woodwork all day every day, what would that be? Do you eventually want to focus on a specific type of work or are you happy to keep it broad?
NMcK: Right now I do whatever I can to make a living. Every year I try to get closer to the idea of designing, making, and selling my own furniture. I find it difficult to sell a piece for what I think it's worth so I end up keeping it for us. I try and sell the stuff to visitors. Then you have visitors who ask about the piece and I tell them I made it. They say "you should really sell this stuff", and I'm like "well, thats the idea".
Commissions are fine, but doing something with no outside input is where I want to get to. Going back to a possible mental illness— in my mind I think about this chair I've got templated waiting to be made. I watched the documentary "The Defiant Ones" and thought that I'd make the chair and try and get Dr. Dre to take a few. I'm laughing while writing this but I thought it was a winner of an idea. I'm serious but I laugh at myself too because it seems stupid. It'd be even more funny if Dr. Dre bought one though. In the world we're living, I'd say that celebrity endorsement is a massive thing. I don't think its nice but I've seen stuff that celebrities endorse that look really bad. Then you see a piece that someone made, lets say they don't use social media and they've got a low following. They post the pic and get 12 'likes' but the piece is far superior to this celebrity endorsed shit. The celebrity endorsed guy/woman makes more money. I'm not here to say if that's fair or not but that's the way it is. Then I'd think are you better off being the person with a low following and just make good stuff that sells to few people? This is what goes through my head most days as I work out how to actually sell a piece for what I think it's worth. I don't even want to start talking about 'art' I'd be still writing next week with my thoughts on furniture as art and who decides what's what.
“WE ALL SIT AT THE SAME TABLE EVERY NIGHT AND EAT, AND LAUGH, AND ARGUE ABOUT STUPID STUFF. I’M NOT SURE THERE’S MUCH ELSE YOU NEED.”
DM: How do you define success in life and in your career? Do you consider yourself successful?
NMcK: The ego will say a house in Malibu and a 1972 Porsche 911, it might be right. Right now I'd define success as doing exactly what I want and being able to afford the lifestyle we choose. Am I successful? Financially successful, definitely not. I'd say I'm kinda' successful as far as family goes. Our kids are way more confident than I was when their age. They can talk to people and they've all got good jokes. I'm simple, man. We all sit at the same table every night and eat, and laugh, and argue about stupid stuff. I'm not sure there's much else you need..... other than a Porsche. And I don't want a Porsche because it's a Porsche. I think the 911 is the greatest thing ever designed. It's timeless. It'd be a purchase to remind me what good design is.
DM: What advice would you give a young Neil McKinlay just starting out on his woodworking career?
NMcK: Get a workshop as soon as you can and learn how to make furniture. Read George Nakashima books. Stop eating chocolate and drinking coke. When you were making a few grand a week for that period in time, put most of it away, you don't need the majority of the shit you bought.
DM: Neil, thank you again for your time. I know that a lot of woodworkers will enjoy reading your thoughts here and hopefully take something useful from the conversation. If it's okay with you we'll finish with a quick-fire round.
DM: What’s your favourite curse word!?
NMcK: FUCK and any/all of its variations.
DM: What tool purchase turned out to be your best investment?
NMcK: The Festool Domino XL by miles.
DM: Favourite song to blast out in the studio?
NMcK: Tough one. The Whole of the Moon by the Waterboys maybe. So Lonely by The Police has the best drums for air drumming. Van Morrison's Sweet Thing will get you going too. There's so many man.
DM: What are you not very good at?
NMcK: Telling people NO. Taking enough time to enjoy the process, and relaxing
DM: Last question. When are the YouTube videos coming back!?
NMcK: The most asked question on every Instagram post. I had a break, it felt weird and I'm too cynical about life and myself. In my mind I thought folk didn't like them even though the comments and emails proved otherwise. I'm sure its a mental thing I've got going on. I've worked it out though and I plan on getting back to them soon. I only ever did it for the chat and to meet other folk. It was great for that.
THANKS
I'd like to just very quickly say thanks publicly to Neil for taking the time to do this interview. His honesty is refreshing. He has allowed us all to see the thought processes and emotions that come with being a woodworker and trying to provide a living for your family. His thoughts on life, and on what's important, give us all pause for thought to maybe re-assess how we structure our own lives. I first came across Neil through his YouTube videos, and loved them. They are humorous, insightful, and also hugely helpful from a woodworking point-of-view. I think he's probably being a little hard on himself, when he mentions being cynical about them, and probably doesn't realise how good they are.
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